Super heavies or super lame? - Printable Version +- Redditch Tabletop Gamers Forum (https://forum.redditchtabletopgamers.com) +-- Forum: Fantasy and Sci-Fi Miniature Gaming (https://forum.redditchtabletopgamers.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=35) +--- Forum: Warhammer 40K (https://forum.redditchtabletopgamers.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Thread: Super heavies or super lame? (/showthread.php?tid=2620) |
RE: Super heavies or super lame? - aprilmanha - 25-08-2015 Its the same with any Fringe list that sacrifices all but one element of a force list to maximise one aspect. Fringe lists need other fringe lists to have close games (Knights vs massed Drop pod marines for example). Imagine fighting against a guard army that only took infantry platoons on objectives... Vs 5 knights. The guards player would do little against the knights other then get stomped, but good luck on killing the 350-400 models in 5 turns. I'm just not a big fan of fringe lists (even my eldar Wraith list is dull and I fitted them out with different weapons for each unit to try and make them interesting) RE: Super heavies or super lame? - wako1302 - 25-08-2015 (25-08-2015, 04:04 PM)Alpharius Wrote:(25-08-2015, 12:09 PM)wako1302 Wrote: I have no problems playing LoWs, in fact I have been known to field 5 Imperial Knights in an army and usually two when Allied with the Sisters. In that case you may as well say that you are not going to play the Drop-Pod list or a Teleports Centstars list, just because you have not built a list to take advantage of their weaknesses. ** SPOILER ** You have to play a different tactic against the Knight Army, you most likely will not don't beat the Knight List in a straight shooting fight, but you beat them by concentrating you fire on one at a time and by getting more Tactical Objectives - By having usually 2, 3 or 4 times the number of units you can easily get more Tactical Objectives completed per turn. These days I am playing the Sisters with 2 Knights (The Knights are only there because the Sisters have basically no Tanks) and to be honest it is a much tougher list than the 4 or 5 knights. fyi - JJ has beaten the knights with his Eldar. RE: Super heavies or super lame? - wako1302 - 25-08-2015 (25-08-2015, 04:28 PM)aprilmanha Wrote: Its the same with any Fringe list that sacrifices all but one element of a force list to maximise one aspect. A strandard-ish Guard list with a few Russes and Lascanon Heavy Weapon units would be a Knightmare for the Knights - Just too may units to deal with, even the units that could not hurt a Knight could tie it up in combat or run around just taking Tactical Objectives. RE: Super heavies or super lame? - aprilmanha - 25-08-2015 (25-08-2015, 05:28 PM)wako1302 Wrote: A strandard-ish Guard list with a few Russes and Lascanon Heavy Weapon units would be a Knightmare for the Knights - Just too may units to deal with, even the units that could not hurt a Knight could tie it up in combat or run around just taking Tactical Objectives. I still would not take the Russes, as that's about 30-40 less bodies to clog up the Knights gears with, and a Russ will die to quickly to be any use. Maybe lines and lines of Guards with a 5 Melta in each squad + a Commisar in huge fearless blobs that can gun down the Mechs if they get to close Pretty immovable though and not likely to hold more objectives then the ones in their half of the board so they have to hope they play a good card game RE: Super heavies or super lame? - wako1302 - 25-08-2015 (25-08-2015, 05:38 PM)aprilmanha Wrote:(25-08-2015, 05:28 PM)wako1302 Wrote: A strandard-ish Guard list with a few Russes and Lascanon Heavy Weapon units would be a Knightmare for the Knights - Just too may units to deal with, even the units that could not hurt a Knight could tie it up in combat or run around just taking Tactical Objectives. True, but I am saying if you take what a normal-ish Guard List has (one that has not been modified for Knights) - Lots of Infantry, some good Heavy Support and odd flyer - it is still going to be difficult for the Knights to win - One very lucky Guardman can tie up a Knight on his own. RE: Super heavies or super lame? - aprilmanha - 25-08-2015 (25-08-2015, 05:50 PM)wako1302 Wrote: True, but I am saying if you take what a normal-ish Guard List has (one that has not been modified for Knights) - Lots of Infantry, some good Heavy Support and odd flyer - it is still going to be difficult for the Knights to win - One very lucky Guardman can tie up a Knight on his own. That would be some scary luck to avoid the CC attacks and then the 4 stomp hits as well Still having said that I rolled more 6's in a row a few weeks back then ever (and got a triple one this weekend) RE: Super heavies or super lame? - wako1302 - 25-08-2015 (25-08-2015, 06:07 PM)aprilmanha Wrote:(25-08-2015, 05:50 PM)wako1302 Wrote: True, but I am saying if you take what a normal-ish Guard List has (one that has not been modified for Knights) - Lots of Infantry, some good Heavy Support and odd flyer - it is still going to be difficult for the Knights to win - One very lucky Guardman can tie up a Knight on his own. A knight is only Weapon Skill 4. So the D-Weapon is not always hitting. It also does nothing on a roll of 1 and the Guardsman may have a save on a roll between 2 and 5. Only a roll of 6 would be an instant kill. Only one STOMP template could cover the Guardsman, so he would only get 1 hit. It also does nothing on a roll of 1 and the Guardsman may have a save on a roll between 2 and 5. Only a roll of 6 would be an instant kill. I have had a single marine stand up against a Knight for 3 turns before it was killed - Once lock in combat a Knight cannot run, and therefore cannot shoot - A good tactic is to just sacrifice units against the Knight to stop it doing anything. You can win a game of 40k with just a single Guardsman left alive. RE: Super heavies or super lame? - manrogue - 25-08-2015 Standard guard can do fine against Knights, just put melta bombs on stuff (which i recommend anyway, 5Pt melta bombs have bailed me out loads). Melta vets love knights and my guard army would cause a lot of issues to knight list. The problem a lot of people have at the club is they don't play to win, they play to kill stuff and tend to forget about victory conditions. Which is fine and cool if that is how you like to play but in Daves defence, knights are not the most hard to beat list. Which is why you don't see them winning GT's. Its all about death stars and/or MSU's in 7th. 5 Knights can be picked off one by one and don't have objective secured anymore either, so they struggle to hold objectives. My BA drop pod list is a all comers list and i wouldn't switch it up to face hordes or Knights, its designed to face, well, anything! The lists weakness is massed flyers, but even then have fun trying get rid of all the drop pods and troops sitting on objectives. But thats he way 40K is, there is always a rock to your scissors. RE: Super heavies or super lame? - aprilmanha - 25-08-2015 Ehh I just don't like how Fringe lists became the "Balanced all-rounder" list in 6th and 7th Still no skin off my noes I never expect to ever win any game anyway RE: Super heavies or super lame? - Embolden - 25-08-2015 LoW and super heavies are part of the game now, people better get used to them. Imperial Knights are tough, Wraithknights are tougher and they are becoming more and more popular with more Imperial Knight variants, last I heard, Tau rumoured to get one of as well. LoW are here to stay. |