my two cents on improveing at 40k

[sprogmcjob]

u guys can ignore this adapt it or follow it to the letter but this from what ive found if this proves popular (ie people found it usefull) ill do more in furture

army list
in particular i found this at the club and from other openants now there nothing wrong with picking ur fav stuff or what u think is effictive but there could be easy ways to really improve the armys you useing

1)troops they may seem basic or boreing but ur basic trooper is the hidden hero in ur army lists and heres why
they can hold objectives
they are good for denying kill points (cheap so can have more than the elite units thus with possible cover and chances of enemy missing they are better at suriveing on mass than your more sparse elite/fast/heavy choices)
they add bulk to your army giveing your more units and numbers allowing you to a degree to shrug of war casutiles and keep going

so if you have a non meq non core army then you will want more troop choices in 1500pts around 3-4 min troop choices and 600pt min on the pt cost this goes for all army but in more hordy armys they like around 5-6 troops and around 800pts min

now im not gonna go into depth on meq armys and core armys now but these armys are the oppesites to the combined arms apporach way so this dosent apply to them

i dnt want dracstic change to the meta game but i think most of the armys i seen could do with a better backbone or foundation and the easyist way to help is with troops

renember heros started off being bill the guardman with his weak lasgun[/size]

[Nick]

Sound advice.....but i'm a stubborn person at heart, so i'll always be cramming as much cool stuff as physically possible into my force and charging it around the table with reckless abandon and gusto.....then again, thats just how i like to play lol, tactics be damned!!! Always nice to have posts on tactics though, seen as alot of us are either new at the game or relearning it its nice to have sort of a general pooling of knowledge. I myself need lessons on how to roll dice, as i think after 3 or 4 games my dark eldar have only managed to kill one tank with their dark lances XD

[sprogmcjob]

dark elder are a little different as most of their list these days are meq so its different
like i said its just my views people do what they want to do

[Nick]

My DE are basically only 4 units with transports, and 2 tanks for support, and i pretty much just hit as hard and as fast as possible where i see a weakness, it seems to be a tactic thats working lol. Having said that i might be nice to make more army specific tactics, or even counter tactics for people struggling against a specific foe or play style. Just a thought, i know Vince has had a stab at some Marine ones i think, maybe time will see some others emerge

[Nick]

Thought i'd add some basic tips to this thread, just some general advice that has stood me well so far. First one would have to be not to forget basic troops, as Alan has already stated. With them you can take objectives, use them to shield more fragile and expensive units in your force, and as they are cheap compaired to your other units you can take them in larger numbers, giving you much greater tactical flexibilty and making it easier to react to your opponents moves. Secondly, try not to get too carried away with 'shiny' stuff. Spending 250-300+ points on a single unit makes it a mighty big target, and it all goes to waste if they get blown up before they can do anything usefull. This doesnt mean dont take your favourite units, but use them to support your overall battle plan. Which leads me to my third point, support your units. Even a humble unit of basic troops can be turned into a well oiled, objective claiming murder-machine if supported, and if it supports, the rest of your force. Enough ranting, just thought i'd add a few points to this thread for any newer players, or anyone wanting to improve their play.

[manrogue]

Another thing i'd say is pick your targets wisely and don't get fixated on big shiny things. The reason i like to take landraiders is purely as some people tend to get fixated on trying to pop it rather than hit the vindicator next to it that is wiping more stuff out...
likewise, If you are running a mech heavy list go for the melta units first or you'll soon regret it when they start popping tanks for fun....

[Nick]

Psycological impact was a point i was going to bring up later. Knowing how an enemy is going to react to certain units you bring helps you dictate the flow of the game. The threat of elite infantry, tanks or monstrous creatures can really draw firepower away from your other units, or force the enemy to try and avoid them at all costs, either one is good for you if you exploit it

[Embolden]

My take on improving at 40k:

Know the rules, I mean really know the rules, I still take things for granted, but if anything pops up in a game, read about it at the time, then read again later, just so you know for future reference that when a situation could or has developed in a game, you know what to expect and how to deal with it. (An example was in the game against Nick, I could of sworn if a transport was destroyed when it moved flat out, the unit inside was killed? But going back to the rules, that was total bull... I have no idea where I got that idea from, so now in the future, I know that I have to destroy the unit in side and that my fast tanks can do the same!).

Analyse – pre game take a look at your opponents list, figure out your plan of action, I do this by looking at the table and work out (taking into account objectives) where you’d like to go, where your opponent would most like to go and run through the various alternatives, I look at terrain and how my army will interact with it, before deciding where to place my objectives, my scoring units are in tanks, so hate objectives in cover for example, but infantry based armies are much better having objectives in area terrain.

Now the table sides have been decided, I then like to run through how I think the battle will go in head before the game begins, so that’s thinking ahead to turn 5-6 and figuring out how my opponent is going to get to objectives and what they’re likely to doing with their army.

Once the game is in motions, it’s a good idea to take a step back and analyse how things are going, what your objectives are and how to go about achieving them and also how your opponent’s army is fairing.

If the game is a fun or practice game, talk through with your opponent in regards to why they’re doing certain moves and then talk about why you’re moving the way you are, this way you get feedback on what you’re doing right and wrong and what you’re forcing your opponent to react to, all this information is valuable, so pay a lot of attention to this. The number 1 ranked player in the UK (and has been for coming up 3 years) said that he likes to play a game with his opponents army (while his opponent plays with his) and they play a game, then they go back play the same game again, but go back to their own armies, this way you learn what your opponents are thinking when facing YOUR list. I believe this to be an awesome titbit of info and would really like to adapt this in to the gaming club, people willing of course, because a truly believe this will make us all better gamers!

I also believe improving as a 40k player is not all about having the best list, it’s about all of the above, from knowing the rules, to predicting what your opponents moves will be and playing accordingly, capitalising on any mistakes your opponents make. But above all, it’s all about PLAYTESTING just getting out there and playing! It’s the only way to learn and be a better player.

And finally Just a quick note on army lists, as I said it’s not all about having the newest codex, the latest net list or most cookie cutter list, I believe the best lists come from those that you create yourself as they should be suited to YOUR play style, my list for example is totally my creation and any list that is similar is by total coincidence (I don’t claim to have the best list btw lol), it suits me down the ground, I like mech, I like walkers, I like rolling LOADS of dice.

Obviously a list does need to take into consideration missions, what missions are currently played, so Kill Points and Objectives, you need scoring units to win 2/3s of the games, so these are vital, also what sort of lists are popular (note never tailor your list to fight single type of list IE Mech or Infantry, try to be good against both), mech is popular so you need anti-tank and a good amount of it, you need units that can clear objectives if needed, so things like mass shots, an awesome combat unit or template weapons, all things that can clear an objective in a single turn if needed. Having a list that can do as suggested will be good (and every list has units that can fulfil those roles), but at the end of the day you need to be good at the game to make it win!

Those are my thoughts on how to improve and what I take into consideration when playing 40k and list building.

Thanks for reading!

[jaqenhgar]

if a vehicle went flat out and is destroyed in its OWN (player) turn (in the movement phase) the unit is killed, because passengers may not disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out (p6, rulebook FAQ v1.5, Jan 2012). If destroyed in the opponents player turn the unit is not destroyed but follows normal rules for destroyed transports. Skimmers moving flat out are destroyed if immobilised, and count as moving flat out until the start of their next player turn (p71 rulebok)

So the only way i can see this happening is if you have a skimmer that has gone flat out into difficult terrain and fail the dangerous terrain check, immobilising your vehicle and because its a skimmer going flat out that destroys it.

Hope that helps.

---

My two cents based on playing Deathwing (learnt mostly through games I have lost!):

If you have a slow army, make sure you can outshoot your opponent, or overwhelm him with massed numbers. If you have a fast army, use that advantage to overwhelm a portion of his force. Try and fight half his force with all of your force. You can achieve this in deployment if you have a small army and he has a horde if you refuse a flank. Refuse the flank opposite his slower elements so they take longer to reach you.

Always support your units as mentioned before, otherwise no matter how hard they are they can get isolated and destroyed. Pre-match think about your strengths vs their strengths and your weaknesses vs their weaknesses.

Make sure you think carefully about target priority - what are the biggest threats to your units. Don't b afraid to sacrifice a unit, especially near the end of the game if it is not scoring and you are not playing KP, to slow/distract your opponent. Use cheap vehicles to block movement and provide cover.

If you are gong to be charged in the following turn and can't move out of charge range, always charge first. Chances are your unit is dead anyway (if not CC specialist) and you are more likely to be wiped in two rounds of combat than one, meaning he is tied up for his move phase but free on your player turn so you can shoot him again. (obviously this needs to be judged based on the strengths/ weaknesses of his army, and if you rapid fire you can't assault so you lose some shooting...).

If you are taking on a hard element of his force, do it with overwhelming force. Otherwise avoid his hard units (if poss), and take out the soft ones. Nothing better than a 500pt deathstar unit that you can avoid for the entire game. (I have learnt this the hard way).

Lastly if you reserve don't forget that the unit you wanted on turn 2 might not come on until turn 5 (and my Ravenwing always seem to arrive turn 5 when the battle is all but over!). I prefer to scout my RAvenwing bikes now, but still not great at using these, they seem to die too easily.

Sorry for the stream of conciousness, but hope some of it is useful to someone.

Chris

[sprogmcjob]

well this thread getting bigger lol
yeah really good points the games great that in most instances the game isnt really decied on lists but it does help and is the frist step hence why i began there

im gonna start by talking about the battle last tuesday between me and an ork player (sorry ive forgotten ur name really bad i know) the objective was kill points he had 2 massive mobs of orks a battle wagon with nobs in it a defkopta unit a nob squard walking and garzskull thrakka i had 3 guardian squards (cheap) 2 small units of rangers a unit of darkreapers a avartar and warithlord a falcon with farseer and swooping hawks i deployed frist and went for a rather standard deployment of cheap units on the sides my bigger nasty stuff in centre (behind cover) he deploy his entire side on his right
to sum the battle up he move across the bord and wipe out 2 squards of gaudians oposeing them and he took out an avatar that was holding 30ardboys (i think) in the centre. i wiped out anything bar gazskull why cause he chosen to do a refuse flank with his close combate army while my longrange shooty army was happy to spread out shoot him and sacrifice my cheap units

why did i write this well to underline that even in killpoint games where u usally just want to kill many things its important to target key things (usally big things in point cost) as they are the things that will amass the most kill points on your side in this instance my falcon and farseer moveing around and giveing rerolls for the army and costing 393 pionts would have even the tables