New Eldar?

[Embolden]

LOL - already getting rage quitters over Wraithknights.. yay!

Nice list Vince, I'm thinking along similar lines.. or just something crazy..

Double Wraithknights with Windrider formation, Dark Reapers looking good, Hemlocks, Banshees and a lot of other units.. BS5 Fire Dragons for example.

Lots of options!

[Alpharius]

LOL - already getting rage quitters over Wraithknights.. yay!

Nice list Vince, I'm thinking along similar lines.. or just something crazy..

Double Wraithknights with Windrider formation, Dark Reapers looking good, Hemlocks, Banshees and a lot of other units.. BS5 Fire Dragons for example.

Lots of options!

I am all for using your codex to the max but somethings are just abit too much. Thoms DA dex is severly needing an update and a buff to stuff that isnt terminators.

And lets be fair. 2 str D weapons on a GC model with high roughness and easy saves is imperial knight level. Which are more points and more difficult to put into lists.

Correct me if im wrong but the other races who have had recent dexes havent got anything like this. Makes me wonder why start with eldar.

Im not complaining just want to understand the logic if someone can explain it to me. Where does it take the game.

[Nick1988]

Kinda agree with the above point to be honest. Comparing the wraith knight to the ctans in the necron book..... Well you can't compare them! 30-40 point difference does not justify the stats and perks in the slightest! Just wish they'd made ctans similar to wraith knights although I guess I'd end up spamming them as the eldar players are sure to do so does that then just make it a game of big creatures and fast skimmers? Would be interesting to do the math hammer of a fight between 6 wraiths and a wraith knight as they come to roughly the same points (I assume).

[Simian]

Its GW, they want to sell their biggest shinest models. They build the codex's to sell models, they have admitted this before. Their words "we are a miniatures company, not a games company"

i haven't touched 40k in a while now because it stopped being fun to play. i want to play it, i love the fluff, i love the models, i just wish it was balanced and fun for all involved.

i love my Dark angels, and i have an eldar force as well (no WK), i sold off a load of the dark angels late last year and im on the cusp of selling everything else. its not specifically to do with this codex, more that i dont get the use out of it to justify keeping it any more.

[manrogue]

Its easy to get as many imp knights into any armies list as you want, just take a imperial knight detachment along with your normal detachment.
WK aren't unstoppable, just severly undercosted.
For example 2x 5 man BA assault squads in pods with 2 grav and combi grav have decent chance chance killing it in one turn.
Same with bikes with same load out.

[jaqenhgar]

I am also glad they stopped being able to use malefic demonology. With the wraith knight thing, it's not really going to be an issue at the club as we are able to talk to each other before hand about what game type we want, so if you want a challenge of downing three wk you can set that up, if anyone has them. Just an issue on the tournament scene but sure ppl will get round it. Seem to remember ppl saying flyers were broken but ppl are now saying flyers won't be a big part of the scene.

Out of interest, what do ppl think is the best way of taking out a wraith knight, other than, like you say rob, another wraith knight?! Will we see an increase in high str ap 2/3 weapons like Lascannon spam?

Shame about the poison being being crap vs gargantuans, will just have to load up on dark light weapons, perhaps a second unit of true born. Could always take an autarch ally or comms relay to get +1 to reserves for the de, might be worth it.

[Embolden]

LOL - already getting rage quitters over Wraithknights.. yay!

Nice list Vince, I'm thinking along similar lines.. or just something crazy..

Double Wraithknights with Windrider formation, Dark Reapers looking good, Hemlocks, Banshees and a lot of other units.. BS5 Fire Dragons for example.

Lots of options!

I am all for using your codex to the max but somethings are just abit too much. Thoms DA dex is severly needing an update and a buff to stuff that isnt terminators.

Yep DA dex is struggling for sure. But to give up before a game because someone has 2 Wraithknights just annoys me.. my point wasn't to Thom in particular tho - just to be clear. Just look at this thread tho... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/pos...45028.page

And lets be fair. 2 str D weapons on a GC model with high roughness and easy saves is imperial knight level. Which are more points and more difficult to put into lists.

Knights are just as easy to slot into other lists, you don't have to take 3
Wraithknights are arguably better than Imp Knights, but are harder to fit into other lists (formation as allies or CAD as LoW)

Correct me if im wrong but the other races who have had recent dexes havent got anything like this. Makes me wonder why start with eldar.

No MCs like this, but Necrons have access to all kinds of nastyness with re-rolls to 2+ saves and re-rolls to reanimation protacalls to only being targetted by snap shots for a turn. So they have nasty combos.. including Scarabs and Spiders than can EASILY be in your deployment zone before charging turn1.

I'm not sure on the others recently, but Space Wolf character death stars are brutal.. played one at the weekend that hit with 30-40 STR9-10 Hammers/Fists with re-rolls. They would walk through a Wraithknight out of interest.

Im not complaining just want to understand the logic if someone can explain it to me. Where does it take the game.

It takes the game is a dangerous direction... GW were doing an excellent job of balancing the codexes, with all the newer releases on a par with each other, Necrons were going to be top tho.. so I guess a trend was set before Eldar?

GW can either make the next few codexes like Eldars and balance the game that way but having a situation like early 6th ed with Chaos, Eldar and then Tau as the stand out codexes or leave Eldar as super powerful having a Grey Knight similar effect from 5th ed, with 1 stand out codex and then the rest (Eldar we crap at the time.. haha) fairly balanced trailing in its wake as 2/3 of tournament attendees were rocking Grey Knights.

Bar Wraithknights and Jetbikes the Eldar codex is extremely balanced.

But please.. I urge people to not just rage quit before the codex is even out and not even playing it.



@ Nick (need to add it quote after you click reply)..

I take you're point.. but look at the Avatar compared to Wraiths..

I see what GW did with the Wraithknight making it a LoW trying to limit it to one.. but having a formation that allows 12.. they just want to make money out of them.. and they will!

[Embolden]

Wow I type slow.. ninja'd 4/5 times lmao!

[Embolden]

Its easy to get as many imp knights into any armies list as you want, just take a imperial knight detachment along with your normal detachment.
WK aren't unstoppable, just severly undercosted.
For example 2x 5 man BA assault squads in pods with 2 grav and combi grav have decent chance chance killing it in one turn.
Same with bikes with same load out.

Grav Cents are the best mate, Grav on infantry as they drop out is lowt salvo so will struggle.. Grav Bikers will become the target of every Jetbike in the enemies army

Grav Cents in pods will be popular! Along with Auspex characters..

I am also glad they stopped being able to use malefic demonology. With the wraith knight thing, it's not really going to be an issue at the club as we are able to talk to each other before hand about what game type we want, so if you want a challenge of downing three wk you can set that up, if anyone has them. Just an issue on the tournament scene but sure ppl will get round it. Seem to remember ppl saying flyers were broken but ppl are now saying flyers won't be a big part of the scene.

Out of interest, what do ppl think is the best way of taking out a wraith knight, other than, like you say rob, another wraith knight?! Will we see an increase in high str ap 2/3 weapons like Lascannon spam?

Shame about the poison being being crap vs gargantuans, will just have to load up on dark light weapons, perhaps a second unit of true born. Could always take an autarch ally or comms relay to get +1 to reserves for the de, might be worth it.

I think we'll see a masssssssive meta shift.. so its hard to say as Lascannon spam isn't great against any of the other builds..

I wouldn't gear tooo much to taking out Wraithknights.. they might not even be allowed.. at present Gargantuan creatures are out right banned at tournaments, so they might not be an issue for Cally. As for general play.. its up to club if they are allowed or even if people want to face them.

Plus it will take a tournament or two to get a feeling for how the new Eldar will shape up.. plus people will have to buy and paint the models.

[Thom]

@Embolden - I'd rage quit if they didn't politely let me know that multiple WK were to be used. I think that's common courtesy.
I have now purchased the Grav-turions and will be allying with Blood Angels and UltraSmurfs to drop pod in these right next to said WK with Tibby and with Presience and (hopefully Invisibility) and pray.

@jaqenhgar - to move the discussion on from WK, I think the only other really strong units were the buffs to the Phoenix Lords (who are ludicrously cheap - Asurmen at 220 vs Abaddon at near 300) are deadly!
The further buffs to banshees, and striking scorpions will hopefully mean more actual models being used rather than lots of Wave Serpents and War Walker lists I have seen.