some list bashing

[Cookie101]

hey guys for those who didn't go to battlefield Birmingham I discussed with the guys there about making a space marine army that would stand a good chance of doing well at tournaments.

after borrowing Kevin's codex and with what we discussed in my head i sat down and wrote up this 1850 point list.

space marine (1850)

primary detachment - ultra marines (1000)

Chief Librarian Tigurius. = 165
chapter master - space marine bike, shield eternal, power fist. = 225

space marine bike squad - 2 extra bikers, 2 Grav-guns. = 135 (troops)
space marine bike squad - 2 extra bikers, 2 Grav-guns. = 135 (troops)

storm talon gunship - twin-linked lasscannon. = 140
storm raven gunship - twin-linked lasscannon, twin-linked multi-melta. = 200

secondary detachment - imperial fists (total = 850)
captain lysander. = 230
scout squad - 5 sniper rifles. = 60
Centurion devastator squad - 3 additional centurions, 6 missile launchers, 3 twin-linked lasscannons, 3 Grav-cannons with Grav-amps, omni-scope. = 560

the basic idea here was that the scouts, the centurions with characters start on the board while the bikers (who are scoring due to the chapter master on a bike) the storm talon and storm raven (with the storm talon escorting the storm raven) go in reserve.

the centurions get buffed by Tigurius who in the ideal world gets the powers Prescience (re-roll to hit), perfect timing (ignore cover) and endurance (FNP, it will not die and relentless).

the storm raven and storm talon can go flyer hunting before going after tanks/monstrous creatures (if there are any left that the centurions have not killed), and the bikers roll up and grab objectives, using their Grav-guns as needed to kill off troops/immobilise transports.

the scouts are there purely to grab objectives and stay hidden, and to take shots at weakened troops to try to finish them off.

so a few questions about the list
will relentless over ride slow and purposeful?

is there enough troop choices in the list?

am I going too much death star with the centurions and attached characters?

do I have enough anti-horde shooting?

who should I make the warlord, the chapter master (who's there to tank for the centurions) or Tigurius (who's there to buff them and will be hidden amongst them)?

thoughts and opinions wanted

[manrogue]

Three scoring could hamper you, but is workable if you play them clever.

Outflank bikes and Scouts, depending on mission etc

Other way round with slow and purposeful, they give it the rest of the unit if i recall correctly, ignoring relentless-

Slow and Purposeful BRB pg 47

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run, Turbo-boost, move Flat Out, perform a Sweeping Advance or fire Overwatch.

Could do with some anti horde in there(flamers), but against MEQ will do will.

I would go with Tig all day as do you really want to risk your Warlord while tanking?

[manrogue]

Looked into it a bit more for you Sam and -
Slow and Purposeful is worded with - "A unit that contains at least one model..."

- So one slow and purposeful model in a unit means the whole unit has slow and purposeful.

Relentless, on the other hand, is worded - "Relentless models can..."

- So only a model with the relentless rule is relentless, his unit is not (unless they also have the relentless USR)

The key is in the wording.

Any rule that includes the phrase "a unit that contains at least one model..." means the whole unit has it of one model in the unit has it.

Any rule that does not include that line only applies to the individual models that possess that special rule.

[jaqenhgar]

I'd recommend getting artificer armour on the chapter master on bike otherwise he will just be boltered to death. Could drop one centurion with points left over for another scout squad or some combi-gravs etc. The centurions will tend to overkill stuff if there are 6 in the squad with only the serge being able to split fire.

[Nick1988]

I would maybe drop a centurion or two for some more grav bikes! Probably dropping grav cannons. Ive found that 5/6 centurions tends to massivly overkill whatever it shoots at! Would be better if split fire allowed you to fire more than one model at a different unit but unfortunatly not! Other than that you know i love the idea lol

You would stull have the same worry as me though which is numbers of shots! I really struggled at BB against the nids and Robs beastpack as quantity is much more important than quality against hordes. I still havent found a way to completely solve this hence me trying a load of different allies! When i find a solution ill let you know!! (if there is one :p

[Cookie101]

Looked into it a bit more for you Sam and -
Slow and Purposeful is worded with - "A unit that contains at least one model..."

- So one slow and purposeful model in a unit means the whole unit has slow and purposeful.

Relentless, on the other hand, is worded - "Relentless models can..."

- So only a model with the relentless rule is relentless, his unit is not (unless they also have the relentless USR)

The key is in the wording.

Any rule that includes the phrase "a unit that contains at least one model..." means the whole unit has it of one model in the unit has it.

Any rule that does not include that line only applies to the individual models that possess that special rule.

so if Tigurius uses endurance and gives the entire squad relentless then relentless will over ride slow and purposeful?

based on the views given so far from you guys I've made a few changes to the list dropping 2 centurions for some flamer bikers and giving the scouts a land speeder storm for out flanking.

space marine (1850)

primary detachment - ultra marines (1135)

Chief Librarian Tigurius. = 165 (warlord)
chapter master - Artificer armour, space marine bike, shield eternal, power fist. = 245

space marine bike squad - 2 extra bikers, 2 Grav-guns. = 135 (troops)
space marine bike squad - 2 extra bikers, 2 Grav-guns. = 135 (troops)
space marine bike squad - 2 extra bikers, 2 flamers. = 115 (troops)

storm talon gunship - twin-linked lasscannon. = 140
storm raven gunship - twin-linked lasscannon, twin-linked multi-melta. = 200

secondary detachment - imperial fists (total = 715)
captain lysander. = 230
scout squad - land speeder storm transport, melta bombs (sergeant). = 105
Centurion devastator squad - 1 additional centurions, 4 missile launchers, 2 twin-linked lasscannons, 2 Grav-cannons with Grav-amps, omni-scope. = 380

so I've gained a extra scoring unit of bikers with flamers for anti-horde, and the scouts are more mobile for grabbing objectives.

[Cookie101]

this next list I was also working on more of a fluffy list in my opinion, but still nasty to face.

Crimson fist space marine (1850)
ageis defence line with quad gun. = 100
Pedro Kantor. = 185

SternGuard Veteran squad - 5 extra veterans, 2 combi-flamer, 2 combi-melta, powerfist(veteran sergeant), drop pod. pts = 320

Ironclad Dreadnought - Ironclad assualt launchers, drop pod. = 180
Ironclad Dreadnought - Ironclad assualt launchers, drop pod. = 180

tactical squad - 5 additional marines - melta gun, lasscannon. = 170
tactical squad - 5 additional marines - grav gun, lasscannon. = 175

scout squad - land speeder storm transport. = 100
scout squad - land speeder storm transport. = 100
storm talon gunship - twin-linked lasscannon. = 140
storm raven gunship - twin-linked lasscannon, twin-linked multi-melta. = 200

Pedro Kantor mans the quad gun while the tact squads sit behind the defence line for a good cover save, the ironclads come down turn 1 in my opponents fire base (if he has one) or in positions to attack them turn 2 if they are a assault army, if all goes well the stern guard come on turn 2 with the storm raven and storm talon and the scouts come on turn 4 to grab objectives and/or line breaker, if it is objectives then the tact squads spilt into combat squads to give me 7 scoring units

[manrogue]

Nope, all models count as slow and purposeful. It just adds relentless to squad and does nothing as they are hampered by slow and purposeful.

[Embolden]

Primary Detachment of whatever chapter you like
chapter master - Artificer armour, space marine bike, shield eternal, power fist. = 245

space marine bike squad - 2 extra bikers, 2 Grav-guns. = 135
5 Scouts – 55
storm talon gunship - twin-linked lasscannon. = 140
storm raven gunship - twin-linked lasscannon, twin-linked multi-melta. = 200

secondary detachment – Whatever you want Chapter
Chapter Master – Artificer armour, Bike, Storm Shield, Power Fist – 230?
5 Scouts - 55
storm talon gunship - twin-linked lasscannon. = 140
Centurion devastator squad - 1 additional centurions, 4 missile launchers, 2 twin-linked lasscannons, 2 Grav-cannons with Grav-amps, omni-scope. = 380

Inquisition:
Coteaz – 100
Inquisitor – Psyker Lvl1, Force Sword – 55
3 Acolytes – 12
3 Acolytes – 12
Valkarie – 100

I would love to try this...

[jaqenhgar]

2nd chapter master would only cost 210 in that list Rob